This is an good and open-hearted exploration which is much appreciated. I think, though, it falls into a popular misconception about unschooling; which is that unschooling/SDE precludes adult involvement and *only* involves activity which is undirected. This is not a criticism; it's a common misconception - including often by people who claim to be unschooling (and one reason why I think the term is generally unhelpful, but alas it seems to have won the day).
I have basically followed the philosophy of unschooling for many years and dug deep into it as a living practice (I wouldn't say I have completely unschooled throughout, but did for many years and it is still a big part of our approach). It often does involve large amounts of undirected, mixed age play, but it doesn't have to _only_ be that; and particularly as unschooled children get older they very often seek out direct instruction in the form of classes or tutorials (or these days, ChatGPT). The key distinction is whether those activities are chosen and freely entered into by the child themselves, or dictated to them.
You say, for instance, that it is impossible to unschool coding - I would argue that my youngest (recently turned 12) has done precisely that (in fact, it's one of the more common things for unschoolers to settle on, as resources for self teaching are so abundant). I have, from time to time, pointed him at websites, provided him with books, and very occasionally answered questions. As I say, unschooling is the opposite of no adult involvement - it is not directing but it *is* accompanying (and having done both 'fulltime' unschooling and a mix of more formally directed stuff - unschooling is far harder work!). Mostly though, he's found what he needs himself, followed tutorials, or asked ChatGPT, and every now and then shows me something like how his text adventure written in python can now be installed direct from his github account using pip. Yesterday morning he moved the initialisation phase into a GUI. He didn't need a class scheduled to tell him to do that, and the motivation was entirely his own - but he *did* seek out step by step tutorials for precisely the thing he wanted to do. That is the essence of unschooling.
I would however absolutely agree with the point that unschooling requires an intense level of adult involvement; I don't think it's possible within a mass schooling model. I also think the democratic school approach is a slightly different thing.
Thank you for taking the time to respond! You touch upon (what I find to be) the main challenge in writing about education, which is, generalizations both must work, and never works. For example, we've homeschooled our kids throughout (14 & 12), but when they were little we toured a bunch of Montessori schools. You would think Montessori is Montessori is Montessori. That's not what we found, at all; each school had its own idiosyncrasies. So then, which school am I really talking about when I mention "Montessori"? Being a public school teacher, I can say for certain that what happens in one school is not what happens in the other, and very often, what happens in one classroom is not the same as what happens in another classroom right across the hall.
I'm not writing off the problem; in fact, I am writing something right now about problems with school leadership. I'm four or five hours into it (in total), and I have to ask myself, "Do I truly believe that these are problems in public schools, generally? Or am I just complaining about my 17 bosses?" I want to do the former, but the latter is where I draw my experience, and I can only guess (based on the news, books, articles, and internet vibes) whether or not my experiences are echoing the experiences of other districts, states, and countries. I suspect many are, and some are just an Albany thing.
In terms of your more specific point, about unschooling and parental involvement: I wrote a post making that exact point on my old blog (lost forever, I'm sorry to say). Although, as a thought experiment, if an unschooling child chose to follow a Waldorf style of education, would you say they were unschooled? Or would you say they did Waldorf? On one hand it doesn't really matter, the fun of homeschooling is you can do those kinds of things and not have to worry too much about what you call it. On the other hand, it makes it difficult to write about and discuss, without putting on asterisk on the end of ever paragraph!
Peter Gray addresses this also in his blog "The Good Enough Parent is the Best Parent"; basically, too little is neglect and too much isn't SDE/unschooling. I thought that was a pretty good way to think about the "ideal" unschooler.
Waldorf is like Montessori (or any other philosophy): every school is different. My niece and nephew attend a Waldorf School. I recently grilled my sister for specifics. They stick to the “only natural materials” rule pretty fiercely, but my nephew’s projects sounded like typical research projects (ex., research an animal and create a poster about what you learned).
As far as direct instruction, I agree with the commenter, and I appreciate her writing it for me. I just want to add that it’s hard to define what must be learned through direct instruction. For example, my two children and I learned to read without direct instruction. We are also great spellers with no phonics instruction. However, we suck at sports! I couldn't learn to ski WITH lessons. 😁
One thing that I feel needs direct instruction is handwriting. I've seen homeschool parents leave it up to the child to do it “their own way.” Sure, they come up with something, but writing by hand becomes difficult and painful.
One example: I was tutoring an 8-year-old student and he was doing creative writing. He needed to write a capital E. He drew a line and then turned the paper on its side to make three little lines descending from his first line. Then he had to turn the paper back the right way to continue. Given these issues, I think its worth taking 10 minutes a day to teach handwriting!
Yes, I agree with both of you that these terms can be somewhat useful as a shorthand but often people mean very different things when they say they "unschool" (or any other approach). It's one reason why I'll try and avoid the term as much as possible. Another is that while following an approach can be helpful, it's important not to get idealogical about it to the detriment of what the child in front of you actually needs. I would say we have been inspired by many approaches (unschooling high amongst them), but what we've actually done has changed over the years - partly as my energy and enthusiasm and the needs of the rest of the family have changed! My oldest children had much more of an unschooling experience than my youngest has, although the principles have remained to the fore.
I actually asked my eldest (now 18 and at university) whether she considered her education to be unschooling or not. She said she does up to the point that she started taking some structured classes (around 13) and studying for exams. While these were things she chose to do, she felt that once she had signed up for them, the structure overtook the self-direction aspect.
As for what needs direct instruction - I think this varies between individuals, and again there is a difference between instruction that is sought for and that which has to be imposed, although the actual instruction might be the same. My older two did the same with handwriting as they did with reading - experimented and explored for a long time, spent a few weeks intentionally asking for formal instruction to speed them on their way, and then went back to their own direction. My younger two have needed much more of a push to develop handwriting. (Coincidentally - or not - the older two are girls and the younger two are boys; make of that what you will!)
I’m fascinated by these notions. 24 years ago mainstream teacher, and a passionate advocate for PBL over the last ten when I devised and lead a PBL curriculum strongly influenced by Ron Berger. Now exploring SDE following a recent sting facilitating in a learning community for home Ed kids. Introduced to Peter Gray through this. I am coming around to a model that included all three as part of a standard offer with roughly 20% SDE (thanks Derry Hannam), about 15% PBL and then 65% core through DI.
I’m trying to work up a model that’d be viable within an (otherwise) mainstream setting; one that wouldn’t scare the horses. Tipping the balance more towards PBL and SDE would be the ideal.
Ok this was a legit great read. Really enjoyed it. Not to over simplify, but I think the beauty is in the polar opposites and not trying to muddle them. There is something discordant and harmonious about envisioning a school day with parts DI and parts unschooling that seems really interesting. Anyway, loved the piece.
Thanks brother! I resist the phrase "there needs to be a balance", but there is value and understanding to be extracted from these very different ideas.
This is an good and open-hearted exploration which is much appreciated. I think, though, it falls into a popular misconception about unschooling; which is that unschooling/SDE precludes adult involvement and *only* involves activity which is undirected. This is not a criticism; it's a common misconception - including often by people who claim to be unschooling (and one reason why I think the term is generally unhelpful, but alas it seems to have won the day).
I have basically followed the philosophy of unschooling for many years and dug deep into it as a living practice (I wouldn't say I have completely unschooled throughout, but did for many years and it is still a big part of our approach). It often does involve large amounts of undirected, mixed age play, but it doesn't have to _only_ be that; and particularly as unschooled children get older they very often seek out direct instruction in the form of classes or tutorials (or these days, ChatGPT). The key distinction is whether those activities are chosen and freely entered into by the child themselves, or dictated to them.
You say, for instance, that it is impossible to unschool coding - I would argue that my youngest (recently turned 12) has done precisely that (in fact, it's one of the more common things for unschoolers to settle on, as resources for self teaching are so abundant). I have, from time to time, pointed him at websites, provided him with books, and very occasionally answered questions. As I say, unschooling is the opposite of no adult involvement - it is not directing but it *is* accompanying (and having done both 'fulltime' unschooling and a mix of more formally directed stuff - unschooling is far harder work!). Mostly though, he's found what he needs himself, followed tutorials, or asked ChatGPT, and every now and then shows me something like how his text adventure written in python can now be installed direct from his github account using pip. Yesterday morning he moved the initialisation phase into a GUI. He didn't need a class scheduled to tell him to do that, and the motivation was entirely his own - but he *did* seek out step by step tutorials for precisely the thing he wanted to do. That is the essence of unschooling.
I would however absolutely agree with the point that unschooling requires an intense level of adult involvement; I don't think it's possible within a mass schooling model. I also think the democratic school approach is a slightly different thing.
Thank you for taking the time to respond! You touch upon (what I find to be) the main challenge in writing about education, which is, generalizations both must work, and never works. For example, we've homeschooled our kids throughout (14 & 12), but when they were little we toured a bunch of Montessori schools. You would think Montessori is Montessori is Montessori. That's not what we found, at all; each school had its own idiosyncrasies. So then, which school am I really talking about when I mention "Montessori"? Being a public school teacher, I can say for certain that what happens in one school is not what happens in the other, and very often, what happens in one classroom is not the same as what happens in another classroom right across the hall.
I'm not writing off the problem; in fact, I am writing something right now about problems with school leadership. I'm four or five hours into it (in total), and I have to ask myself, "Do I truly believe that these are problems in public schools, generally? Or am I just complaining about my 17 bosses?" I want to do the former, but the latter is where I draw my experience, and I can only guess (based on the news, books, articles, and internet vibes) whether or not my experiences are echoing the experiences of other districts, states, and countries. I suspect many are, and some are just an Albany thing.
In terms of your more specific point, about unschooling and parental involvement: I wrote a post making that exact point on my old blog (lost forever, I'm sorry to say). Although, as a thought experiment, if an unschooling child chose to follow a Waldorf style of education, would you say they were unschooled? Or would you say they did Waldorf? On one hand it doesn't really matter, the fun of homeschooling is you can do those kinds of things and not have to worry too much about what you call it. On the other hand, it makes it difficult to write about and discuss, without putting on asterisk on the end of ever paragraph!
Peter Gray addresses this also in his blog "The Good Enough Parent is the Best Parent"; basically, too little is neglect and too much isn't SDE/unschooling. I thought that was a pretty good way to think about the "ideal" unschooler.
Waldorf is like Montessori (or any other philosophy): every school is different. My niece and nephew attend a Waldorf School. I recently grilled my sister for specifics. They stick to the “only natural materials” rule pretty fiercely, but my nephew’s projects sounded like typical research projects (ex., research an animal and create a poster about what you learned).
As far as direct instruction, I agree with the commenter, and I appreciate her writing it for me. I just want to add that it’s hard to define what must be learned through direct instruction. For example, my two children and I learned to read without direct instruction. We are also great spellers with no phonics instruction. However, we suck at sports! I couldn't learn to ski WITH lessons. 😁
One thing that I feel needs direct instruction is handwriting. I've seen homeschool parents leave it up to the child to do it “their own way.” Sure, they come up with something, but writing by hand becomes difficult and painful.
One example: I was tutoring an 8-year-old student and he was doing creative writing. He needed to write a capital E. He drew a line and then turned the paper on its side to make three little lines descending from his first line. Then he had to turn the paper back the right way to continue. Given these issues, I think its worth taking 10 minutes a day to teach handwriting!
Yes, I agree with both of you that these terms can be somewhat useful as a shorthand but often people mean very different things when they say they "unschool" (or any other approach). It's one reason why I'll try and avoid the term as much as possible. Another is that while following an approach can be helpful, it's important not to get idealogical about it to the detriment of what the child in front of you actually needs. I would say we have been inspired by many approaches (unschooling high amongst them), but what we've actually done has changed over the years - partly as my energy and enthusiasm and the needs of the rest of the family have changed! My oldest children had much more of an unschooling experience than my youngest has, although the principles have remained to the fore.
I actually asked my eldest (now 18 and at university) whether she considered her education to be unschooling or not. She said she does up to the point that she started taking some structured classes (around 13) and studying for exams. While these were things she chose to do, she felt that once she had signed up for them, the structure overtook the self-direction aspect.
As for what needs direct instruction - I think this varies between individuals, and again there is a difference between instruction that is sought for and that which has to be imposed, although the actual instruction might be the same. My older two did the same with handwriting as they did with reading - experimented and explored for a long time, spent a few weeks intentionally asking for formal instruction to speed them on their way, and then went back to their own direction. My younger two have needed much more of a push to develop handwriting. (Coincidentally - or not - the older two are girls and the younger two are boys; make of that what you will!)
I’m fascinated by these notions. 24 years ago mainstream teacher, and a passionate advocate for PBL over the last ten when I devised and lead a PBL curriculum strongly influenced by Ron Berger. Now exploring SDE following a recent sting facilitating in a learning community for home Ed kids. Introduced to Peter Gray through this. I am coming around to a model that included all three as part of a standard offer with roughly 20% SDE (thanks Derry Hannam), about 15% PBL and then 65% core through DI.
I'd be curious how such a program works out!
Do you mean 65% of the TIME would be direct instruction? That seems like a lot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Hi,
I’m trying to work up a model that’d be viable within an (otherwise) mainstream setting; one that wouldn’t scare the horses. Tipping the balance more towards PBL and SDE would be the ideal.
Thanks for your engagement,
Pete
Ok this was a legit great read. Really enjoyed it. Not to over simplify, but I think the beauty is in the polar opposites and not trying to muddle them. There is something discordant and harmonious about envisioning a school day with parts DI and parts unschooling that seems really interesting. Anyway, loved the piece.
Thanks brother! I resist the phrase "there needs to be a balance", but there is value and understanding to be extracted from these very different ideas.
I am about to write about something akin to this post so will quote you if that’s ok? You raise some points definitely worth unpicking.
Absolutely!